DT Talks: Capturing the Complexity of Cities

[Tammy Au]

Join us for the next video in our series on Tuesday. Dan Clarke and the CDBB team will host a live chat session at 10.30. Bring your questions.

 

 

[Guest KasperMillerDenmark]

Hi from Seoul, South Korea

Question:

Do you think that potential conflicts could arise in the realization of the Smart City and Digital Twin concepts due to being perceived as intrusive to privacy?  

Regards 

Kasper
 

[Tom Hughes]

Welcome to the start of today’s Digital Twin Talk on Capturing the Complexity of Cities, and a big thank you to @Dan Clarke from Cambridge City Council for joining us. We’re looking forward to your thoughts and questions related to Dan’s talk – and maybe posing one or two of our own.

As with all our Twin Talks @Dan Clarke is online from 10:30am to 11:30am to answer your questions. To join the discussion please add your thoughts by replying to the conversation thread.

[Dan Clarke]

Hi Kasper,

Yes -there is the potential for conflict with local communities as we capture more granular data. We have been using camera based systems to capture movement (vehicles, cycles and pedestrians), these process data at the edge and are all fully compliant with data regulations. However we need to bring transparency to the way these systems operate to build confidence in communities that data is being collected for a purpose that brings benefit to their communities and that we are not using technologies such as facial recognition.  At the moment this is achieved by including a sign under the camera with some basic information and publishing information on a website. This doesn't go far enough and we have been looking at various data governance models that would give elected officials and communities control over the way data is controlled and used. 

Dan

 

[Tom Hughes]

@Dan Clarke, you mention that the Smart Cambridge Programme was set up about 5 years ago. What challenges have you faced getting the programme to where it is today, and what advice would you give to someone who is starting a similar programme today?

[Guest]

Hi @Dan Clarke  

It was a very insightful and interesting presentation. It triggered me to go to the Smart Cambridge website https://www.connectingcambridgeshire.co.uk/smart-places/smart-cambridge/ .  I even downloaded the MotionMap app https://www.connectingcambridgeshire.co.uk/smart-places/smart-cambridge/journey-planning/. It is very good to be able to see the carbon emissions for different journey options. 

For question: 

Looking at the app, I feel the underlying data could be very similar to data used by some journey planners (eg. google maps). Have you considered using existing national data infrastucture, as integrating data was a challenge (as mentioned in your presentation).   I am also wondering what was the advantages of the time-table data integrated locally, compared to other existing time-table data? (My impression is there is a good train timetable data for the whole country, but I don't know about buses and other services.)

I will think of other questions, soon.

Steven

 

[Dan Clarke]

The key to a successful smart cities programme is to really understand how technology and data can help  create better places for your residents. We spent quite a lot of time working to articulate and think about that the role that technology should play and how best to begin to pilot and trial emerging technologies with the aim that at some point they should be mainstreamed into operational services. 

The key challenges we faced have been:

Governance - Giving local members from both the city authority and county authority oversight and representing their communities. Getting the governance right also helped to unlock funding from the Greater Cambridge Partnership

Data - as an organisation we are data rich but most is trapped in legacy systems or of poor quality and we have faced quite a challenge to begin to sort ou the internal data plumbing

Siloed systems and polices - One of the key benefits of a 'smart' approach is to begin to work across siloes and take a more 'system of systems' approach - there are a number of organisational barriers that we have come up against that make this difficult

Business cases - the business cases for the deployment of 'smart' technology are not well developed and we tend to be competing for funding against infrastructure projects that have a well worked through assessment process that gives a BCR 

What has been important is collaboration with academia, business other public sector bodies and most importantly communities. If your starting a programme today build your network, work with local partners and know what problem your solving.

[holgerkessler]

Hi, its a repeat story from me - have you thought about taking the subsurface into consideration? A significant amount of the urban infrastructure interacts with it...

[Guest KasperMillerDenmark]

Thanks for your elaborate answer to my first question. 

In extension to Tom's question. 

There are many aspects of the digital twin concepts that are theoretically thought to be of great benefit and value.

Energy management, water management, waste management, asset management, occupancy tracking, parking tracking... the list goes on. 

Through your experiences with the Cambridge Programme, which of these concepts have been the most beneficial with consideration to ease of development and implementation, and which the most challenging?

 

[holgerkessler]

And I would like to compare some notes on your learnings regarding the governance Dan, perhaps we could catch up some time - the National Underground Asset Register has taught us many lessons which match yours...

[Dan Clarke]

Hi Steven,

The real time data from buses is collected locally and we work with a local company ITO world to clean and structure it and then we feed it into Google Transit, Apple Maps and Motion Map. At the current time there is no national real time data feed suitable for journey planners, this may change as the government has mandated data sharing by bus companies and data will be published through a DfT website. Real time will be added t this site next year but is likely to still need some work to be suitable for apps. 

Time table data is now being published nationally but wasn't when we set up the app so we need to take a feed from the local bus companies. 

Rail companies publish their real time data nationally on a feed called Darwin.

 

[holgerkessler]

And finally it is vital that you keep the CPNI and NCSC involved as there are clear risks to our national and cyber infrastructure that need to be mitigated

 

[Dan Clarke]

Hi Holgerkessler,

Yes we would like to map the sub surface but haven't progressed it yet. Having seen talks about work in this area i understand that governance can be an issue and welcome a conversation.

Yes - Cybersecurity is critical and needs to be embeded from the start. The challenge for LA's is around skills and understanding when it comes to things like cybersecurity.

 

Edited July 14, 2020 by Dan Clarke

[Tom Hughes]

@Dan Clarke, the importance of governance is prominent in your talk. From the Gemini principles, to the new governance you highlight in your digital strategy, and the risk that insufficient governance can pose to smart city projects. Are there any key resources you have used to shape your governance model?

[holgerkessler]

Just now, Tom Hughes said:

@Dan Clarke, the importance of governance is prominent in your talk. From the Gemini principles, to the new governance you highlight in your digital strategy, and the risk that insufficient governance can pose to smart city projects. Are there any key resources you have used to shape your governance model?

 

could we see a slide on your governance model?

 

[holgerkessler]

2 minutes ago, Dan Clarke said:

Hi Holgerkessler,

Yes we would like to map the sub surface but haven't progressed it yet. Having seen talks about work in this area i understand that governance can be an issue and welcome a conversation.

yes please - I can put you in touch with the Regional Geologist at the British Geological Survey - message me on holger.kessler @ cabinetoffice.gov.uk

[Dan Clarke]

Kasper,

The city council have had some poor experiences with 'smart bins' giving false readings and have struggled with the business case. Smart Grid technology is maturing as are the business cases and are now being successfully deployed. The use of data for better travel information and to optimise operations is well proven as is the use of data to better manage the road network. We still have many areas we haven't begun to operate in and are looking to develop an infrastructure (data architecture and networks) that will allow us to begin to easily deploy more sensors to deliver better services.

 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, holgerkessler said:

the National Underground Asset Register

@holgerkessler The NUAR is a very good example, and it is also award winning, hope to learn more about your experiences. I'd love to vote for it https://www.gov.uk/government/news/national-underground-asset-register-project-update

I have noted some national registers, including NUAR-National Underground Asset Register, Digital National Asset Register (DNAR) and others- relate to identifiers for streets and address. Hope they can become backbone of the national digital twin, and connected twins.

ref: https://twitter.com/steven4320555/status/1193221760352698370?s=20

[Dan Clarke]

On the governance model 

Resources - we have worked looked at some of the work the ODI have done on data trusts and worked with a company that was developing a data governance model. The overall governance model (oversight of members) we used existing structures (Greater Cambridge Partnership boards). I can look out a slide and share post chat.

[Tom Hughes]

Hi Holger, there is a slide in the recording from 10m:15s that shows 4 input to "new governance" for the Smart Cambridge Digital Strategy

•  New competence framework
•  Data sharing and security
•  Citizen engagement
•  Legislation, regulation and risk management

At a high level how does this compare with the governance around NUAR?

[Tom Hughes]

An open question to all in the discussion, particularity anyone online that hasn’t posted yet. Which part of Dan’s presentation interested you the most, and what key insights will you be taking away to apply to your own work on digital twins?

[Guest Sam Thyne]

Hi,

The part that interested me the most was the new development discussed at the end of the presentation.

I was very interested in how buy in from multiple different developers and contractors working on different projects could be achieved. Is this something that the Council can mandate, or would consider mandating, at the consenting phase?

Sam

[Andrew Myers]

Really interesting talk. It'll be good to keep an eye on how this project progresses as there are lots of areas where this could be a world leading project and highlight the benefits and approaches that could accelerate other similar projects (as well as provide a great use case to demonstrate value).

The key points that I'll take from this as we work on our Twin Strategy at Northumbrian Water are the importance of governance, not just in getting the twin set up, but also in the ongoing use of it. Also the importance on the inter-operability and data standards.

It would be good to know if any of these standards can be shared, along with lessons learned. It's always a challenge between having high standards that enable high quality models, vs. lower standards that can enable greater number of data sources and participants to contribute to the model (especially when data from legacy systems and existing sensors is difficult to enhance).

Thanks

[Dan Clarke]

Hi Sam,

Its still very early days and we are in discussions with developers planners etc.  How we deploy and fund the DT, the governance for that development etc is still being discussed. L

earning from the project will inform future projects and a DT could be mandated through planning policy at some point.

[Tom Hughes]

Many thanks to @Dan Clarke and everybody on this chat for all your comments and questions.

We are now coming to the end of our live discussion, but we will keep this space open and available until the end of the day in case you have further thoughts or questions. We will continue to monitor the discussion during that time, but on a less frequent basis.

We will also add Dan’s video, along with the videos from previous talks, to this page: https://digitaltwinhub.co.uk/digital-twin-talks/

Looking ahead, our next Digital Twin Talk: The Integrated Enterprise  by @KReevesDigi of Costain. We will post the video of Kevin's talk on Monday evening and Kevin will join us for a live forum discussion on the 21st July between 10:30 and 11:30 am BST.

We are keen for as many people as possible to benefit from this excellent series of talks and discussions. Please share a link to the DT Hub with your contacts and let them know about the Twin Talks.

Thank you all very much again,

Tom Hughes - DT Hub Delivery Lead