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Tammy Au
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Welcome to the start of today’s Digital Twin Talk on "Why a National Digital Twin" and a big thank you to @Miranda Sharp from CDBB for joining us. We’re looking forward to your thoughts and questions related to Miranda’s talk – and maybe posing one or two of our own.

As with all of our Twin Talks, Miranda is online from 10:30am to 11:30am to answer your questions. To join the discussion please add your thoughts by replying to the conversation thread. 

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As Miranda mentioned in her talk, the National Digital Twin is aiming to help achive net zero carbon emission. May I ask what are the independent digital twins currently available that measures the energy consumption/carbon emission? And how do you plan to link them together?

Examples in my mind are: 

Supply side-National Grid's Carbon Intensity API- https://carbonintensity.org.uk/ 

Demand side: National Energy Efficiency Data framework  https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/national-energy-efficiency-data-need-framework 

Edited by Steven Zhang
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Hi @Miranda Sharp, thank you for the video.  An idea dawned on me as I was watching.  You mention the London Underground working in isolation successfully as well as the greater benefit that can be realized through their connectivity.  Do you think that we may end up with a twin classification such as:

  • Lonely digital twins (those that have a complete dataset and fulfil their purpose entirely);
  • Selfless digital twins (those that are built exclusively to export their dataset to third parties);
  • Selfish digital twins (those that import third party datasets without exporting datasets themselves); and
  • Collaborative twins (those that both export and import datasets).

This may be linked to the maturity work? but I think it would be a useful way to articulate how secure digital twins could take without giving (for example) as well as how isolated digital twins can exist while still conforming to the IMF

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It may be a trivial point but it bothered me that the gears in the two DT slide 2 & 3 are loocked and cannot function.

Otherwise interesting opening talk but I expected it to be on zoom or some other interactive channel.

When is return date for INF feedback?

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14 minutes ago, Steven Zhang said:

As Miranda mentioned in her talk, the National Digital Twin is aiming to help achive net zero carbon emission. May I ask what are the independent digital twins currently available that measures the energy consumption/carbon emission? And how do you plan to link them together?

Examples in my mind are: 

Supply side-National Grid's Carbon Intensity API- https://carbonintensity.org.uk/ 

Demand side: National Energy Efficiency Data framework  https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/national-energy-efficiency-data-need-framework 

Thank you Steven

this sounds like an excellent use case or application and one we might like to collaborate on to identify the problems and possible solutions.  Can you help us get in touch with the right people?

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@Miranda Sharp, you mention the IMF pathway consultation in your talk. Could you explain how members of the DT Hub can take part and perhaps share your thoughts on why the IMF pathway consultation is important for the success of the National Digital Twin programme.

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1 minute ago, AquamatiX said:

It may be a trivial point but it bothered me that the gears in the two DT slide 2 & 3 are loocked and cannot function.

Otherwise interesting opening talk but I expected it to be on zoom or some other interactive channel.

When is return date for INF feedback?

Thank you for your question and I take your point about the locked gears.

The IMF consultation is open until the 31st of August, please respond as an individual or on behalf of a group and let us know if there is anything we can do to support your response.

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2 minutes ago, Tom Hughes said:

@Miranda Sharp, you mention the IMF pathway consultation in your talk. Could you explain how members of the DT Hub can take part and perhaps share your thoughts on why the IMF pathway consultation is important for the success of the National Digital Twin programme.

 

Hub members are welcome to respond individually or on behalf of a group.  We will also looking in to conducting interviews and round tables for people who would find that a more suitable way to feedback.

The document was produced after consultation with over 100 experts in the field of information management on the challenge of creating the common infrastructure which can connect different digital twins.  We set out in the document, and the accompanying approach document, the reasons why such a common  infrastructure is necessary and helpful.   (Some members may like to direct their less technical colleagues to the approach document.)

The common infrastructure is called the Information Management Framework and comprises a Foundation Data Model (FDM), Reference Data Library and Integration Architecture.  Work is underway this year to create an "FDM seed" to support the Construction Innovation Hub.

Through the consultation we are keen to hear from a wider community than the experts who contributed to creating it.  This wider community may have completely different or completely aligned on the nature of the IMF so we are keen to test those views.

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1 minute ago, Miranda Sharp said:

Thank you Steven

this sounds like an excellent use case or application and one we might like to collaborate on to identify the problems and possible solutions.  Can you help us get in touch with the right people?

Hi Miranda, I'd certainly love to help (I am trying to get in touch with people working on National Energy Efficiency Data framework, as I have been using academically accessible data,  and constructed an open version of the NEED data framework). I named the supply side and demand side just to give an example, and I believe there are more interconnected players in the system. But in my opinion, carbon emission from electricity supply and demand is relatively easy to start with, as electricity system has the most readily available data. 

One immediate recommendation would be the "EDTF-Energy Data Task Force", which I believe is a partner of CDBB.  https://es.catapult.org.uk/case-studies/energy-data-taskforce/ 

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@AquamatiX Thanks for the feedback on the interactive element of the Twin Talks. The talks in the series are pre-recorded. Each week a new talk is released on Monday evening with a live forum discussion on the DT Hub from 10:30 to 11:30 on Tuesday morning. The discussion stays open all day on Tuesday to allow people to continue to contribute to discussion and/or work around other commitments. The series of talks concludes with a roundtable discussion between all speakers. The round table for this series is scheduled on the 25th August and is a live event. You can find details on all of the talks in this series and the roundtable  on our community calendar https://digitaltwinhub.co.uk/calendar/ 

If you have further questions for @Miranda Sharp or the wider CDBB team you can post them in this conversation thread.

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Hi @Miranda Sharp, this might be an unfair question (sorry) but how does the NDT programme plan to quantify what information is needed from stakeholders and support them in maintaining it. 

In your bridge example there is a cost (time/money/effort) to maintain a conforming dataset that may not support asset owner use cases.  In these instances, how does the NDT programme plan to incentivize altruism to enable these greater values.  Will it rely on the ethos of "data for the public good"  and the good will of asset owners or will it need to consider utilizing regulatory milestones such as a requirement to submit information to planning/building control to require these datasets to be made available?

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An open question to all in the discussion. Miranda mentions three important “cross silo” challenges that could be addressed by the interconnection of digital twins; Carbon reduction targets, coordinated disaster response, the improvement of societal wellbeing. Do you see any other cross silo challenges that could be addressed by interconnected digital twins?  

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3 minutes ago, DRossiter87 said:

Hi @Miranda Sharp, this might be an unfair question (sorry) but how does the NDT programme plan to quantify what information is needed from stakeholders and support them in maintaining it. 

In your bridge example there is a cost (time/money/effort) to maintain a conforming dataset that may not support asset owner use cases.  In these instances, how does the NDT programme plan to incentivize altruism to enable these greater values.  Will it rely on the ethos of "data for the public good"  and the good will of asset owners or will it need to consider utilizing regulatory milestones such as a requirement to submit information to planning/building control to require these datasets to be made available?

another good question, thank you Dan.  The truth is we're not sure yet but we are doing 3 things in parallel.

  1. Developing the IMF, the common infrastructure, which we hope can be used as the rules for the game that enables owners to connect digital assets.  It also allows commercial services to be developed to help clients or allows them to use a basic version for free.
  2. Working with the community to understand and share the benefits of creating and connecting digital twins so that business cases can be created.
  3. Where we identify systemic blockers using the combined power of the community to address them.  One such barrier may be regulation where we may be able to show that new approaches are required so that cross silo benefit can be unlocked.
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11 minutes ago, Tom Hughes said:

An open question to all in the discussion. Miranda mentions three important “cross silo” challenges that could be addressed by the interconnection of digital twins; Carbon reduction targets, coordinated disaster response, the improvement of societal wellbeing. Do you see any other cross silo challenges that could be addressed by interconnected digital twins?  

 

thanks Tom, I'm really keen to hear them if people come up with more

 

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Many thanks to @Miranda Sharp and everybody on this chat for all your comments and questions.

We are now coming to the end of our live discussion, but we will keep this space open and available until the end of the day in case you have further thoughts or questions. We will continue to monitor the discussion during that time, but on a less frequent basis.

We will also add Miranda’s video, along with the videos from previous talks, to this page: https://digitaltwinhub.co.uk/digital-twin-talks/

Looking ahead, our next Digital Twin Talk: Digital twins – capturing the complexity of cities by Dan Clarke of Cambridge City Council. We will post the video of Dan's talk on Monday evening and Dan will join us for a live forum discussion on the 14th July between 10:30 and 11:30 am.

We are keen for as many people as possible to benefit from this excellent series of talks and discussions. Please share a link to the DT Hub with your contacts and let them know about the Twin Talks.

Thank you all very much again

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8 minutes ago, Tom Hughes said:

An open question to all in the discussion. Miranda mentions three important “cross silo” challenges that could be addressed by the interconnection of digital twins; Carbon reduction targets, coordinated disaster response, the improvement of societal wellbeing. Do you see any other cross silo challenges that could be addressed by interconnected digital twins?  

 

I see silos everywhere-for good/bad reasons, but I can't think of challenges that could be addressed by the interconnection of digital twins immediately. These three grand challenges are big enough to solve. 

In the digital world, it is very easy to construct silos. If there is no eco-system to share data, in a coordinated and trusted way-- so I am looking foward to see the power of IMF.

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