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Twinfrastructure discussion


Nicholas
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DRossiter87
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We will host a live discussion on this page (underneath the video) with Neil Thompson from the National Digital Twin team on "Twinfrastructure - Creating a Common Language" at 10-30 am on Tuesday 19th May. Please take a look at the video below from Neil beforehand – this will form the basis of the discussion. 

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Hi Neil.

It is good to listen to your presentation, and get to know a plan for 'Information Management Framework Pathway' paper. As a visitor (non-member), I can see 10 terms- common languages for people.

Meanwhile, I am also interested in the common languages for data. I'd love to hear your comments on the following 2 examples of data and meta data, particularly with relation to the Common Steam at DT hub- the foundation data model. 

1. Use common terms within Data, Metadata and supporting information ( Energy Data Task Force)

https://modernisingenergydata.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/MED/pages/319389709/Data+Best+Practice+v0.21#2.-Use-common-terms-within-Data%2C-Metadata-and-supporting-information

"There are currently efforts to standardise the naming conventions used across a range of infrastructure domains by the Digital Framework Task Group as part of the National Digital Twin programme of work. The long term goal is to define an ontology which enables different sectors to use a common language which in turn enables effective cross sector data sharing.

In the near term, it is unhelpful to create yet another glossary so we propose a two staged approach."

2. DAFNI-

as mentioned by Brian Matthews two weeks ago, and also mentioned in DAFNI's news letter-"Transition to new metadata schema for the data store, adhering to standards which comply with the DCAT v2 vocabulary. 

https://www.dafni.ac.uk/news/dafni-newsletter-may-2020/

 

Steven

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23 minutes ago, Guest Charles Keen said:

Many thanks for the talk, Neil,

is their likely to be a link between the new terms and the appropriate technical standards related to and defining the term and orientating the applications?

Hey @Charles Keen - You highlight something important about the Commons and what I've called our design principles. We have two modes of development, first is the creation of seeds. Where the seeds will either inform the development of existing standards or form the basis of new national/international standards. The second is establishing links to existing standards and supporting the extensibility of particular standards. 

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and it is even more philosophical as the built environment interdigitates, interacts and in many cases shapes and forms the natural environment - this is all part of the wider discussion about the #anthropocene

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Hi @Neil Thomspon, you mentioned that the glossary is a part of the commons work-steam.  Does this mean that terminological entries hosted within the Glossary will be used by the other work streams?  For example, could an entry accepted within the Glossary end up in a future CDBB report?

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As Neil mentioned Internet in his presentation, I'd love to share an-early stage of next generation internet I came acrsoss recently.

The Spatial Web-people, space and assets linked together. They are developing a HSTP-hyperspace transaction protocol.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Guest Yu(Steven) ZHANG said:

Hi Neil.

It is good to listen to your presentation, and get to know a plan for 'Information Management Framework Pathway' paper. As a visitor (non-member), I can see 10 terms- common languages for people.

Meanwhile, I am also interested in the common languages for data. I'd love to hear your comments on the following 2 examples of data and meta data, particularly with relation to the Common Steam at DT hub- the foundation data model. 

1. Use common terms within Data, Metadata and supporting information ( Energy Data Task Force)

https://modernisingenergydata.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/MED/pages/319389709/Data+Best+Practice+v0.21#2.-Use-common-terms-within-Data%2C-Metadata-and-supporting-information

"There are currently efforts to standardise the naming conventions used across a range of infrastructure domains by the Digital Framework Task Group as part of the National Digital Twin programme of work. The long term goal is to define an ontology which enables different sectors to use a common language which in turn enables effective cross sector data sharing.

In the near term, it is unhelpful to create yet another glossary so we propose a two staged approach."

2. DAFNI-

as mentioned by Brian Matthews two weeks ago, and also mentioned in DAFNI's news letter-"Transition to new metadata schema for the data store, adhering to standards which comply with the DCAT v2 vocabulary. 

https://www.dafni.ac.uk/news/dafni-newsletter-may-2020/

 

Steven

there is also a Water Data Task Force and an emerging Telco Data Task Force that should be aligned

 

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10 minutes ago, Guest Yu(Steven) ZHANG said:

1. Use common terms within Data, Metadata and supporting information ( Energy Data Task Force)

https://modernisingenergydata.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/MED/pages/319389709/Data+Best+Practice+v0.21#2.-Use-common-terms-within-Data%2C-Metadata-and-supporting-information

"There are currently efforts to standardise the naming conventions used across a range of infrastructure domains by the Digital Framework Task Group as part of the National Digital Twin programme of work. The long term goal is to define an ontology which enables different sectors to use a common language which in turn enables effective cross sector data sharing.

In the near term, it is unhelpful to create yet another glossary so we propose a two staged approach."

Hey Steven, good to hear from you! This is a good point from the EDTF, the section under your quote says:

  1. Organisations label data with keywords and the authoritative source of their definition e.g. Term [Glossary Reference]

This is exactly what our Glossary is doing, hence the shared status and the related meta data. This is not about creating a new 'master' glossary, our aim is to help the convergence of language in this space. They set out the problem statement well, there are many existing glossaries and there is a need to connect them! 

On the DAFNI front, we are working in collaboration with them. Also, there can never be a single initiative. We need that competitive edge to drive innovation! I'll soon be releasing an article on the hub about the history of the internet. There were a number of competing internet protocols HTML and FTP for example. 

My urge is for members to contribute in linking these through the platform. 

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2 minutes ago, Neil Thomspon said:

Hey Steven, good to hear from you! This is a good point from the EDTF, the section under your quote says:

  1. Organisations label data with keywords and the authoritative source of their definition e.g. Term [Glossary Reference]

This is exactly what our Glossary is doing, hence the shared status and the related meta data. This is not about creating a new 'master' glossary, our aim is to help the convergence of language in this space. They set out the problem statement well, there are many existing glossaries and there is a need to connect them! 

On the DAFNI front, we are working in collaboration with them. Also, there can never be a single initiative. We need that competitive edge to drive innovation! I'll soon be releasing an article on the hub about the history of the internet. There were a number of competing internet protocols HTML and FTP for example. 

My urge is for members to contribute in linking these through the platform. 

Thanks Neil and Steven. BTW, the video from the DAFNI talk is available here

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5 minutes ago, holgerkessler said:

there is also a Water Data Task Force and an emerging Telco Data Task Force that should be aligned

 

We are connected to all these groups, this also links to my response to Steve. I'd rather we have many domain specific twins run with it and flesh out the use cases. This would enable the broader usecase of connecting them more stronger and the investment required. We must remember the business case for an intra-twin is different to the inter-twin case. 

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13 minutes ago, DRossiter87 said:

Hi @Neil Thomspon, you mentioned that the glossary is a part of the commons work-steam.  Does this mean that terminological entries hosted within the Glossary will be used by the other work streams?  For example, could an entry accepted within the Glossary end up in a future CDBB report?

Yes, is the short answer. We want this to be a reference site for any author to find the correct citation for terms. So, the opportunity is not just for CDBB reports, it can proliferate through to any relevant report in the future.  

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Many thanks to @Neil Thomspon and everybody on this chat for all of your comments and questions.

We are now coming to the end of our live discussion but we will keep this space open and available until the end of the day in case you have further thoughts or questions. We will continue to monitor the discussion during that time, but on a less frequent basis.

We will also add @Neil Thomspon’s video, along with the videos from previous talks, to this page: https://digitaltwinhub.co.uk/digital-twin-talks/

We’ve also got some good really interesting threads to follow up on afterwards - we'll reflect on each of these and work out the best way to take these forward.

Looking ahead, our next Digital Twin Talk, a digital round table which will take place on Tuesday 26th at 10:30 am.

Thank you all very much again.

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13 minutes ago, Neil Thomspon said:

This is exactly what our Glossary is doing, hence the shared status and the related meta data.

8 minutes ago, Neil Thomspon said:

We are connected to all these groups, this also links to my response to Steve

Hey Neil. Thanks for the answer.  I am looking forward to see the Glossary unfold, and grow. I was told my membership to DT Hub will be confirmed next month, and hope to contribute something then ?

Steven

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Looking the DT Roadmap, the Glossary was supposed to be delivered at the beginning of 2019. (task 3.1) we are now half way through 2020.  what's the delay and when can we see an update on progresses against the published dates?

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  • 1 year later...

Thanks for the name drop, Michael. I don't think I know about this particular bit of OGC work, but it does sound interesting.

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On 19/05/2020 at 11:11, Neil Thomspon said:

That is one of my favourite illustrations of our systems of systems. This links nicley with https://www.cdbb.cam.ac.uk/news/flourishing-systems the flourishing systems paper, also links to @holgerkessler question about the built aspect of the B in CDBB. Something you can maybe contribute to the Glossary

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/citizen-social-science-age-alpha-generation-humanner-/

Edited by Humanner
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On 19/05/2020 at 10:38, Neil Thomspon said:

Hey @Miranda Sharp, good question! Yes, if we look at things like Github and Stackoverflow in the software world we can see how effective it is to connect technical people in this way. interestingly it creates a vital learning environment!

This is one of our target to address in our multi layered semantic social network collaborative social innovation environment with different repositories like:

See Layer 3
Method
API
Micro Service - UML
Process - BPMN

It will create a vital SERVICE learning environment for the general public
The shared content will be archived and semantically structured by AI and individual Human agents to relevant topics and subjects supported with visual knowledge graph.
Humanner – screenshot 3

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